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Preparing for the New Normal: Making Return to the Office Easy for Working Parents and New Moms

Amy VanHaren
Founder and CEO

In this episode, Amy VanHaren, founder and CEO of Pumpspotting, shared her thoughts and perspectives on the importance of supporting new parents as they return to work - especially breastfeeding mothers. Listen to learn more about the fabric of new family life and how employers can improve parental support, recruit the best talent and refine their return to work programs (post-pandemic as well as post-parental leave) by supporting the whole person, adopting human policies and normalizing human experiences. 

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Podcast Transcript:
Preparing for the New Normal: Making Return to the Office Easy for Working Parents and New Moms

Amy Page: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the OviaAsks podcast. Today's episode is preparing for the new normal, making return to the office easy for working parents and new moms. I'm Amy Page, sales director at Ovia Health and today I'm joined by Amy VanHaren, CEO and founder of Pumpspotting. Amy, I'm so glad to have you with us today.

Amy VanHaren: Oh it's a great pleasure thanks for having me here.

Amy Page: So, it's May and in today's episode we're gearing up to talk about how we take care of working parents. Mother's day was just a few weeks ago and May is also mental health awareness month.

I don't think enough is said about the importance of mental health, especially for parents like you and I, who have really run through the gauntlet this past year, year and a half really were juggling remote work or going into work and trying to keep ourselves safe during a pandemic struggling with a lack of child care options, plus navigating remote schooling quarantine the fragile job market and economic worries on top of our typical caregiving responsibilities and household duties.

It was enough to make anyone break, but I think the tide is turning and people, as well as organizations are really starting to become more open to talking about mental health, especially for working parents.

So today we're hoping to talk a little more about supporting those working parents at work. Especially new moms and how employers can evolve their policies, benefits, and office spaces to better support their workforce today and tomorrow, especially as many are considering returning to the office.

As I mentioned, we have Amy VanHaren of Pumpspotting with us today, if you haven't had the opportunity to meet them yet I'm spotting is a community-driven breastfeeding support platform and employer benefits solution. Amy, you founded pump spotting in 2019. Tell us the story. How did the idea come about and grow into what it is today?

Amy VanHaren: Sure, well, I think, like many of us who are creating companies and building things in the parenthood space, Pumpspotting for me really was born out of raw need. I never would have guessed that I would be the founder of a breastfeeding support company because it's not my background in maternal health, but certainly it was my personal experience that led me here. I was running a marketing agency here in Maine and most of my clients were in California and I found myself in this surreal world of trying to navigate feeding both my family and my career.

I was nursing and pumping all the time. I was either nursing or pumping or shipping hundreds of ounces of frozen breast milk. I was pumping on airplanes between businessmen and in Ubers, and bathrooms and, you know, it's constantly navigating the logistics and the emotional strain of this and I was it was really important to me to feed my child through my breast milk, because I knew how healthy, they were, and it was I was also really passionate about my career, I wanted what I wanted to be doing with my job.

But navigating both was so overwhelming it was really, really isolating and I constantly felt alone in the pump rooms and you know, in the spaces and in the middle of the night. And I really wanted to quit. I was just beside myself trying to get through this and, I remember sitting on the bathroom floor in the San Francisco airport, you know hooked up to a breast pump sounded like Darth Vader i'm just the stress of the women outside the stall waiting to get in. I was, you know, away from my eight week old child and I just had this moment, where I wanted to be connected to all the other mothers who are navigating this phase of life and my background is in digital marketing and community building, so I saw a way to really connect us.

And so, that's when we built the Pumpspotting app. That was the first iteration, it let us connect. It connected us in the palm of our hands and we really started there connecting mothers and working mothers, so that we could provide support, we could share places to nurse and pump. We could really be a lifeline during this time period, and that was kind of the first evolution of Pumpspotting. Then we decided we were really going to understand the state of breastfeeding, and what it is that parents needed and how we could really make a difference that we needed to meet as many as possible.

So, for the next phase of the company, I bought a 40 foot RV, and I turned it into a mothering oasis called the “breast express” and I moved on board.

And we traveled across the country stopping at over 60 cities, and you know gathering thousands of parents at companies and hospitals and mother’s front doors. It really, really taught us a lot about the state of breastfeeding, and one of the things that became really clear was that workplace support was really lacking for parents to reach their feeding goals. For women like myself, to do that while working was really hard and challenging. That’s the direction we went in, and how we got Pumpspotting to where we are today.

In addition to supporting parents, you know, directly through the app and in person on the breast express, we launched an employer benefit version to really help employers serve their parents at work. Making it easier for them.

So I never thought this would be my journey, but now I'm on a massive quest to feed all parents who are feeding little ones and it's really meaningful.

Amy Page: I love that and the breast express might be my favorite part. As you know, I'm also a mom of two and, like you, we've talked about this. I've been a traveling parent since the day I came back from my first maternity leave.

And I’ve used Pumpspotting myself a number of times all over the country to find a space to pump that was clean and at least semi-private. As someone who has struggled in real life to find places to breastfeed or places to pump, I love this mission and \ think it's so critical to making our society, and our workplaces, more inclusive and parent friendly. I also love that this came from a place of real need from real people, and was built through community.

How have your roots as a community-inspired and mission-driven company shaped your view, especially through the lens of the pandemic?

Amy VanHaren: Well, I think, being such a community-driven organization has been really powerful for us.

Because we don't always know where we're going, but we always know who we serve. We always know the parents and the companies, and really the mission, and it's so it's a lot of listening and adapting.

We'd like to imagine at all times that we're really sitting on that bus next to the parents we're trying to serve and to the employers and really listening to what it is that they need, and where they are. And, then, using that information to really shape everything from our product decisions to the way we communicate, to the way that we're connecting people. We've had a lot of really powerful moments on the journey that have shown us the impact of that community lens and what the community needs and how you serve that.

From what we heard, I think isolation is such a big part of this time period for new parents, and certainly the feeding journey. I can think of a few different examples where we saw how to lean into that.

For example, we stopped at a company here in Portland who had a handful of parents who were pumping and working and navigating return to work. And they actually, instead of having individual mothering rooms and spaces, they had a communal pump table. It was a giant circle in the middle of their mothering room where all the pumps were, and they would pump together. They would purposely schedule the time to go in, not to step away from the office, but to step in together. The power of what that meant for the relationships they built with coworkers, and how that made them feel — so much stronger as parents and professionals.

It was really beautiful and so learning that we started learning among the Community more places that people sometimes like to share in that pump experience. So when we built Pumpspotting, the enterprise version app, we built it so parents can check in designate whether they want to share a space, or whether they want it private.

We're leaning into what the community taught us about how we can craft technology that helps other parents do that same thing. That's just one example. I think it happens, time and time again, but we really take the nuggets of what we hear, and then we turn that into what it is that we're serving.

Certainly, in this pandemic what we've heard over and over again, is that there is no separation between work and home and parents need companies and employers to really understand that and to reshape cultures to support that.

Amy Page: I couldn't agree more, and I love the communal pump table, that's fantastic anecdote. You know, I think we've seen in the midst of the pandemic there's this striking reporting. The latest department of Labor statistics estimate that nearly 3 million women have left the workforce since the pandemic began and really I suppose it's not a surprise. If you don't have access to childcare, you probably don't have a lot of other options, but it's certainly not something that's sustainable for the US workforce.

So employers really need to be doing everything they can to enable their workforce to keep working. It’s about supporting employees, you know, and maintaining or improving their mental health, ensuring you have the right spaces for breastfeeding pumping.

And then really creating that Community that you're describing. The holistic support of parents through these measures are all critical pieces. I mean, Amy, you certainly know all of those things; you've built this incredible community of moms who are coming together and really, contributing their knowledge, providing some of that support for one another.

I’ve heard you talk about some core principles of community, communication, and culture at Pumpspotting. Can you tell us more about what you mean when you say that and what you've learned so far from your community about those struggles of parenthood?

You know, despite this isolation that so many of us feel in those early parenthood days there's really a connective thread right amongst all those isolated experiences so, tell us more about that.

Amy VanHaren: Yeah, I think the journey of having a little human being and nurturing them and growing them in the journey of parenthood, and certainly motherhood is universal. Even though it looks different for everyone, there is such strength and power in knowing that and feeling part of the bigger picture.

It’s the culture and community of what's happening, and I think, for a long time we've lived in a place where this conversation has taken place behind closed doors, or not been part of the workplace conversations. That’s certainly true around postpartum and parenthood and breastfeeding for sure.

I think part of that is, when we talk about communication, we're really trying to change the conversation and bring it into more places. Because, being a new mother, being a new parent and especially breastfeeding, is really freaking hard. It’s just hard to navigate the day to day of it. It’s a huge learning curve. There's all these feelings of guilt and stress and worry and all these things it's this emotional and logistical roller coaster. And certainly for breastfeeding, you know, even when it works and goes well it's a massive time commitment. I think you know it's 1800 hours In one year to nurse or pump and feed a child that's the equivalent of a full time job. When you already have a full time job, think of the weight of that on top of everything else.

I think what we've heard over and over again, and what's really important to remember, is that feeding and parenting a human is human and we cannot underestimate the importance of that emphasis, because when parents feel supported in this journey and able to talk about it and communicate with one another and with employers of what they're going through it changes everything.

One of the great takeaways that I hope we really continue to think about is the importance of checking in because I've learned and I've seen that real support is more than just a place or a policy, it's about supporting the whole person.

Amy Page: You're so right and I want to pull out a couple of important points that I heard you make there, of how critical it is to normalize talking about these experiences that are inherently human and so universal. Ensuring that parents feel supported, regardless of what route they take. I think we've come to this point in work where it's not a debate about whether or not to do it anymore if companies want to recruit the best talent, you know prevent attrition in their workforce certainly keep their employees feeling supported it's not if it's it's when and how they're going to support parents.

Now that we've talked about the pandemic a bit, and its impact on mothers and really on all parents and their ability to return to work, let's narrow that focus a bit and talk about people who have delivered babies in the midst of this pandemic.

How do you see that their birthing and their new parent experience has been different from, you know, those who sort of were in the “before times” of new parents?

Amy VanHaren: You're so right. We're living in this new normal for everyone, where the support systems that we're all used to as parents, especially when you have a new baby, have been cut off.Some of the big things you know, having a partner in the delivery room for example, having people bring you food and your loved ones show up to hold the baby, while you take a shower, or just being able to share in the day to day the traditions, the ceremonies all those things that are so important to the health of new parents. No one is supposed to do this alone, you're supposed to be with the village. You're supposed to be connected, you're supposed to be fed and supported. And, all that just hasn't happened because in this pandemic this social distancing and the isolation.

We've essentially kept and then the fear of passing the virus on to babies and new mothers and all of that there's so much stress around that so much that's happening and so much distance. When you think about the fact that there's 4 million babies born in the US each year, and the studies that are coming out around postpartum depression and the feelings of isolation and the worry around mental health are extreme. A huge majority of those new mothers are experiencing high levels of worry and stress and isolation. And, on top of that, you think about some of the layers of parents you think about moms who have babies in the NICU.

For example, when those babies are so fragile, this time period is even more heightened for worry around that. Or, if you can't hold your baby, or you can't be in the same room and all of that, and so we're just in this time period where life-changing circumstances are changing how we live in extreme. It's such a transformational time period, and a roller coaster of adjustments.

Plus, now these parents have been sheltering inside, protecting their babies, just thinking about, “how do I get through the day.” And now it's time to start to emerge. Think about having to go back to the workplace now. It's hard enough to go back and leave your baby after this precious sacred bonding time you've had together and work out that schedule and what that means for everyone. But now, on top of that, now if you've been in isolation in your house for 12-16 months, and now you have to step into a workplace?

I think we are going to have to be especially supportive and thoughtful about the mental health and the state of parents who are coming back to the workplace right now.

Amy Page: Yeah, I think you captured really well the way that the fabric of new family life has been sort of shredded, and then patch-worked back together in this past year and a half. I want to stress those numbers that you just shared. 4 million pandemic babies and nearly 400,000 of them born preterm. Wow, like thinking about that number is mind blowing you know, not just the stress of the NICU, but the additional layer of emotional distress in the midst of the pandemic. We know that has been an untold impact for employers too, right? Employees are out of work longer, they’re understandably more distracted and if you're an employer that's self funding or risk sharing healthcare, then those costs can really be huge.

But, really all of that is nothing in comparison to the stress and anxiety and worry that a family is going to feel caring for a preemie, and I think that's one reason we're both so passionate about this topic. It’s certainly why I'm so passionate about the work that we're doing here and Ovia. I think, you know, being able to help parents avoid those NICU days or preterm birth. Or, if they do find themselves in the NICU, being able to provide them with tools and coaching to help them cope and feel some of that support network.

And, of course, you know, developing that network for parents who've had healthy full term deliveries, as you said, it's stressful for all of us and it's something that we can all take part in including employers. I think really a lot of employers are struggling to find where or how is the most appropriate place to offer their support. Benefits seem like one easy place, but are there, others that maybe folks aren't thinking of?

You know, Amy, you mentioned you've been doing focus groups for parents. What have you learned from that? What do new parents say that they actually need when it comes to support?

Amy VanHaren: That's such a great question. I think our tendency as employers, sometimes we think about things that feel big or costly to impact. Maternity leave, time off benefits, we bring on board all of those things which are vital, and yet, there are many things that are small steps. They don't need to be huge and they aren't cost prohibitive to think about. In one of our amazing focus groups, some of the parents at one particular organization shared one of the things that mattered most to them was empathy.

That really, just, understanding where parents are coming from and asking them how they're doing. That’s key. Sometimes we feel, I think that you know as managers and leaders are afraid to even broach the conversation, but what we heard from parents was that, having their boss ask how it's going or what do they need or just really opening up the channels of communication around the state that we're in is hugely impactful.

Thinking about the language we use, sometimes we have a tendency to say something has to happen ASAP, which, for a parent who doesn't have child care or can't steer the ship immediately in a different direction. So, use gentler language. Like, as soon as possible for your family or for you. That small change lessens some of that extra mental load around this.

I think being really flexible, one of the conversations in the focus group is that as parents, especially in this pandemic we're holding this deck of cards where if we've got the straight flush where everything matches up we're good we're fine. But, the minute those cards are shuffled, which can happen minute to minute in this pandemic, you have childcare. You can’t help if school is canceled. You know, all these shifting things that parents have to be responsive to and that makes it really, really hard to be mentally present in the workplaces they're navigating the safety and the health of all those things.

So, as employers, if we could just be flexible, if we can be open about that and we can be really human in the way we have these conversations it goes such a long way to making parents feel supported.

Amy Page: So we're back to that idea of empathy. Having compassion for and making this effort to recognize and demonstrate humanity, right? I mean, I talked to employers across the country, every day, one thing I hear is that they care. They care a lot about their employees. They want to do right by them. But, maybe, they have competing priorities or they don't know where to start. To your point, it doesn't have to be a huge overhaul. Maybe there are small steps that could make a big difference right now.

And then, I think others have trouble identifying where they're going to be most impactful. Where can they give their employees the best value? Maybe they're trying to maximize the value of their investment. So, what do these employers really need to know about supporting an employee mentally and physically through a breastfeeding journey?

Amy VanHaren: I want to just re-emphasize that I actually think all employers, or at least the majority, want to do right. We want to be there to support, but there are competing pressures and we're all living through this pandemic. There's so much top of mind for everyone.

I think they want to honor that because I think that's true. That's so what's so amazing about what you're doing at Ovia, and what we're doing with Pumpspotting.

We're here to make it easier. We're all on the same team in terms of changing this environment, and helping. I think, you know, on the breastfeeding support side of things, one of the important things to know is that not only is supporting feeding journeys the right thing to do, and really great, but there's a huge business case for supporting employees and their partners in achieving their breastfeeding goals.

Because, when they're successful, then employers experience reduced turnover, reduced sick leave, reduced medical expenses, it goes on. Healthier moms and babies make healthier employees all around. There is a real business case to be had for supporting breastfeeding parents.
And certainly, there are Federal and State laws that really speak to first and foremost, having an internal policy and offering space and time for parents who are nursing and pumping. So, I mean that's first and foremost really important. But at the same time it's really thinking about the whole person and this whole journey. When you think comprehensively about breastfeeding, having a physical location to support lactation is one part of the solution and really important.

But we also need to think about connecting parents to one another, so that they have a community of other parents who are navigating through this.

They also need an easy place and way to find and understand where the places to nurse and pump are, and what the policies are. I mean that's definitely one of the key problems that we're solving with Pumpspotting is centralizing all that information. Because if you're a nursing mom and it's your first day back from work, the last thing you want to be doing is stressing about where to find a mother’s room or how to get in or how to schedule that space. When you just need to express the milk and you're already worried about being away from your baby.

I think that's a key component. So many of the employers we’re working with have really made a commitment to elevate their breastfeeding programs from legally required accommodations to fully comprehensive and effective programming that helps employees to achieve their breastfeeding goals and truly thrive, as both parents and professionals.

So you know it's really hard. I think the more support you can give and the more you think ahead for your new parents, so that they know they have a partner in an employer who's already thought through what they're going to need, that’s a huge difference.

Amy Page: Yeah yes huge difference agree, I can remember early days of traveling and pumping and just struggling everywhere to find a good comfortable place to pump and that included.

You know, at my previous company's headquarters, we had a mothering space, but in our other locations we had changed offices multiple times. The first time I went down there I realized that every wall was clear glass. There was no screen, there was no door to close.

So I ended up in the bathroom and I may have even told you this story before, but I just went to the furthest corner from the door, and pumped in the bathroom. Eventually, the automatic light turned off, and so I was sitting there pumping in the dark, just thinking to myself, “there has to be some better way to support women than having them undress in a public bathroom somewhere.”
You also mentioned hooking up to pump mid-flight. I’ve been there, I also pumped once in the AV cubicle at a conference, because it was the only space they could provide and sometimes you just don't have any other option, you know.

Luckily, I was working at Ovia when I had my second baby, and of course we're focused on women's and family health, so they were incredibly accommodating. And I was also lucky enough to know about Pumpspotting Community support, so I take advantage of that, but I think so many women aren't as lucky.

And honestly, a lot of employers are only just now starting to consider programs that will really improve support here. What have you learned working with companies working parents? How can employers continue to evolve their support to meet these needs, considering, you know how long the pandemic has dragged on?

When I ask, I’m thinking about those new parents who are leaving their kids for the first time, maybe people who've been breastfeeding for eight months but have never needed to use their pump or a lactation room. What is this evolution of employer support going to look like?

Amy VanHaren: I think one of the things that it needs to do is to look like all the shades of working parents. To your point earlier, there is this transformation. The workplace is never going to look the same again.

It's not “one solution fits all.” It's not just supporting your parents who are in the office and needing lactation rooms. It's supporting parents who work sometimes in the office, sometimes at home and parents who work remotely. It's parents who are traveling. To your point, you know, when you are feeding you have to feed every couple of hours.

It doesn't matter if that is happening:

  • At home, and you're navigating zoom like whether or not you're on a zoom call during certain time periods.
  • Or if you're back in the office thinking about, you know, leaving your physical space to find hopefully more than a bathroom, or you know, a space to make that happen.
  • Or if you're in a combination of it.

We have to think about every location, we have to think about every journey. In terms of what this looks like? There's so much mental stress in parents' minds right now with childcare and the day to day. I think we need to go back to whatever makes it easiest for parents. That’s what is really needed right now.

It's not only finding safe places to express milk, but it's finding the community of people at the same stage it's access to the lactation consultants. It's thinking about policies and procedures and all that stuff. It’s just being open to dialogue about what they need so as parents transition back, you’re not forgetting how taxing this journey can be. Just checking in.

In addition to empathy, we should be coming back to that importance of building a community. That's, not just in one physician space, right. It's virtually through digital solutions like ours.

Amy Page: In that vein of Community organization and impact, you and I are working together now as board members of the Maine State Breastfeeding Coalition and you know, with MSBC we're thinking a lot about what employer best practices look like. I think you and I are sort of uniquely positioned both through our personal experience and through our work to help create some structure around this really important thought leadership.

So maybe you can share, how does what you've learned working with MSBC, and also in your work with Pumpspotting, translate to employer best practices? Any shining examples you can share?

Amy VanHaren: Yes and it's so fun to be working with you on the Board. You know, the Maine State Breastfeeding Coalition is such an amazing group of people, and I really love that they are really thinking about the priorities of the communities they serve across the board.

The fact that workplace support is one of the key strategic pillars says a lot about where we are and how we transform culturally across the board for how we're all supporting breastfeeding parents and I think it's exciting.

It's exciting too, that this conversation is happening among companies and employers as well, because you're not on an island navigating this family benefits need. I think the more we speak of community, we should talk about the fact that there is a community of employers. That is beautiful and powerful. For all of us to be sharing best practices! But that’s the goal, right? Part of the coalition's goal is to be bringing employers together to be doing that and thinking about that, and certainly we do at Pumpspotting as well.

One of the examples that comes to mind is we pulled the Breast Express up at NASA. When we were on the road we were there for a few days, and we had some amazing visits with the parents there. We saw their child care facility, and we toured their mothering rooms, and we brought parents together and we had a real conversation about what parents were going through. It was so special because there were so many different people in the room, from the head of flight control who had pumped in between monitoring all of the space activity which is so super cool.

Amy Page: And amazing.

Amy VanHaren: Yeah! I mean you know even astronauts breast feed. It’s so cool to think about how united we are in all of that.

We had these amazing conversations. Some were shocking. For example, one woman said she was the only person in her department, with a new child or as a new mother, who was navigating the breastfeeding experience. Yet, she was on a campus of 13,000.

So that’s how the isolation can happen. Even when you are surrounded by other new parents. It was a beautiful thing that, after some of those conversations and all that they're doing at NASA to connect parents to see her make connections. And NASA now has an internal parents group! That's really powerful, and is working to connect people. It’s just making huge waves and making the situation better for all parents.

Amy Page: Fantastic! I want to talk a little bit more about what you mentioned with with making waves and getting the word out about the groups that are available, and also these benefits that we're talking about building. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Amy VanHaren: Yes, one of the core tenets of Pumpspotting is that we offer an exclusive employer space on the APP and on the software. So that parents can connect to one another, but also so employers can communicate to parents. We're really trying to solve the problem of communication around benefits and what's being offered.

Because when you're on maternity leave, sometimes you've heard it, you know what's offered and all these amazing family benefits and what's there, but until you're like in the thick of it, going, “okay, now I need a lactation consultant,” or you know, “now I'm having trouble with sleep,” or I need to do whatever. I think about how that comes to life. You really need a space to go, and we heard that over and over again from employers. So that's one of the things we've really been focusing on is how to use this tool. Not just to serve all the immediate feeding needs, but how we think about the communication broadly about what's offered.

Amy Page: Yes! I think that necessity to get the word out cannot be understated. Anyone who works in or near benefits knows that you can build the most incredible programs, but if no one knows about it, they won't get used and they'll never be able to impact change at a population level. So, I love that you're calling out that a communication plan is an essential component. Not just communicating between Pumpspotting and the employer, but from the employer to the employee.

You know, building that community and making sure that the word gets out there is something that we've seen work really well for our clients as well. I think that the companies that do that right are really you know going to succeed and pull ahead. And the ones that don't think they're gonna have to keep trying, hopefully they don't take too long to change their minds.

We're seeing research, I'm thinking specifically about a recent Business Insider article that said, nearly one in four employees are planning to look for a new job when the pandemic eases up. And to me, that's everyone who was thinking about it over the past year and a half and has been waiting, hedging their bets until restrictions loosened up.

Well, now the world has opened a bit. But, one in four that's a staggering number of employees who are not happy with their current situation. It’s to the point where they're willing to take a leap and try something different. What do you think about this? How can employers, you know, look at this growing trend and offer support and services that are going to help decrease that attrition?

Amy VanHaren: Yeah those numbers are so scary when we think about it. But, I'm an eternal optimist so to me, this is a real opportunity, this is a massive opportunity for employers to stake their claim as a family friendly place to work. What better thing to be always, but especially right now, when this ‘parents in crisis’ conversation has been cracked open. I think there's a real opportunity to take a look at your policies to think about the benefits you're offering. It’s a chance to really listen, have a focus group, talk to your employees, understand what's happening, and to think about establishing flexible working arrangements too.

Offer support programs to caretakers across the board, whether that's breastfeeding and raising young children, or caring for elderly parents, or childcare.

Whatever it is, now is the time to lean in to evaluate those things that you're offering. The studies show across the board, when you offer family benefit programs and support for caretakers you see huge benefits, on the other side. You see loyalty, you see positive satisfaction among your employees. They stick around, they communicate that to other people.

And, going back to that whole idea of being human. Now is the time. If you think humanly, if you look for opportunities to do that, and you make an investment, I think that there's a real opportunity to be seen in a positive way by the employees that work for you. It’s part of this bigger conversation around supporting working parents more broadly.

Amy Page: I love that. Thank you! Is there anything that we haven't covered that you were hoping to share with us today.

Amy VanHaren: I think we covered many amazing things. So I'm just excited to have this conversation. I love what you all are doing and feel honored to be working alongside you in changing the world for all the parents who are doing the great work of feeding and nurturing their little ones.

Amy Page: Likewise, I mean I'll include myself in the group of folks who are so grateful for you and your awesome work. There are definitely times I would have been pumping on the bathroom floor somewhere if it wasn't for you, so, thank you Amy VanHaren. For this incredible conversation and for the amazing community that you've created through Pumpspotting, and for being such a tireless advocate for working parents and breastfeeding people everywhere.

Amy VanHaren: Thanks, Amy really enjoyed our time together. Thank you.

Amy Page: And thank you to everyone who is listening and stay tuned for our next episode of Ovia Asks.


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